Last night on television on PBS I saw a science program about the James Webb telescope. It was a very good and very informative show. It said some things which I think Sea Breeze would appreciate.
Disillusioned JW
JoinedPosts by Disillusioned JW
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141
My Prediction Regarding New Space Telescope That Will See Back to 100 Million Years From the Big Bang
by Sea Breeze ina new space telescope launched a few days age that will supposedly be able to see to within 100 million years of the big bang.
wow... only 100 million years from the big bang.
that is pretty early given the 12 billion year age of the universe assigned by scholars who adhere to naturalism.
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Disillusioned JW
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773
Breaking News: Anthony Morris III no longer serving on the Governing Body
by WingCommander inthis has been announced on the jw's official website, in the "jw news" section.
this is not a joke.
anthony moron da turd is out as a gluttonous body member!
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Disillusioned JW
Thanks WingCommander for your reply to my comment. Your reply is very informative.
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773
Breaking News: Anthony Morris III no longer serving on the Governing Body
by WingCommander inthis has been announced on the jw's official website, in the "jw news" section.
this is not a joke.
anthony moron da turd is out as a gluttonous body member!
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Disillusioned JW
I think it is quite possible that Tony Morris received a liver transplant accompanied with blood transfusions and I think he might have told governing body members that he thinks blood transfusions are acceptable, and was removed as a governing body member for those reasons. The following is why.
- At https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5144908181012480/can-this-rumor-true the opening post says "Rumor has it there is “new light” (gag!) regarding blood and organ transplants since a recent royal member on the WTS board" [apparently referring to a governing body member] "found reason to ok one for himself!"
- A number of posts on this website say that governing body probably wants to remove the blood transfusion policy. I think I also read that some of the governing body members think the blood transfusion policy should be ended. I think it is quite possible that some governing body members have tried to convince other governing body members that the blood transfusion policy should be ended, and that they might have urged a vote by the governing body on the matter.
- A number of posts on this website say the Anthony (Tony) Morris III drinks alcoholic drinks excessively.
- Drinking alcohol excessively for years often results in alcoholic fatty liver disease and that can result in cirrhosis of the liver. Cirrhosis of the liver is very harmful.
- Anthony (Tony) Morris III is over weight and elderly and those are both risk factors for fatty liver disease.
- If someone receives a liver transplant they also have to have many units of blood transfusions. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2967283/ says "Liver transplantation also is associated with the use of large volumes of blood, considerably more than with most other surgical procedures."
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How to debunk the 1914 calculus ONLY using JW publications?
by psyco ini remember having read somewhere, but i cannot find it anymore, that it is possible to debunk the 1914 calculus using only jw publications, like "insight on the scriptures" (chronologies) for example.. do you have any sources about that to suggest to me?.
thanks..
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Disillusioned JW
Alethia and others, the NWT is not alone is saying "first" or "starting" (or an expression with a similar meaning) in Jeremiah 25:29. For example, Jeremiah 25:29 (Revised English Bible) says "I shall first punish the city which bears my name; do you think that you can be exempt? No, you will not be exempt, for I am summoning a sword against all the inhabitants of the earth. This is the word of the LORD of Hosts."The Revised English Bible (REB) is a revision of the New English Bible (NEB). The rendering of the NEW Bible is one which the WT (including Fred Franz?) a number of times liked in a number of Bible verses and it might have influenced the WT interpretation of some verses (or reassured them of their interpretation [for example, the WT used the 1970 NEB wording of the latter part of John 1:1 to support the NWT wording of "a god"]).
Regarding the meaning of "all the inhabitants" the commentary in the Oxford Study Bible: Revised English Bible with the Apocrypha says the following. "City which bears my name: Jerusalem. All the inhabitants of the earth is an apocalyptic phrase; see following note. 30-38: This whole passage has the flavor of the flavor of apocalypse, the prediction of a violent intervention of God into human history for judgment." I think the commentary is implying that some of the prophecy did not come true literally, by saying "All the inhabitants of the earth is an apocalyptic phrase", and is thus trying to downplay taking seriously that part of the prophecy.
Jeremiah 25:29 (New Revised Standard Version) says "See, I am beginning to bring disaster on the city that is called by my name, and how can you possibly avoid punishment? You shall not go unpunished, for I am summoning sword against all of the inhabitants of the earth, says the LORD of hosts." Even the ESV (which Alethia quoted) says "begin". Even the 1995 NASB (a very literal translation) at Jeremiah 25:29 says "... I am beginning to work calamity in this city ...". The Byington translation at Jeremiah 25:29 says "... I am beginning with the city ...". Likewise even the Revised Version (RV) Bible of 1885 at Jeremiah 25:29 says "... I begin to work evil at the city ...".
Jeremiah 25:29 provides context to interpreting Jeremiah 25:18 as to which city or nation the book of Jeremiah says will receive judgment first, and thus it supports the NWT (2013) saying "starting" at Jeremiah 25:18, and thus I must admit it strongly supports the claims and exegesis of the Bible by scholar (from a biblical text perspective if not a secular perspective) in this aspect. It should be noted however that the NWT of 1984 (a more literal translation than the NWT of 2013) does not say "starting' at Jeremiah 25:18 though it does say "starting off" at Jeremiah 25:29.
The Abingdon Bible Commentary (1929) [which is one of the main non-WT commentaries which I use because it impresses me greatly] on page 694 says regarding Jeremiah chapter 25 "... Jehovah is about to bring all the families of the North (v. 9, cf. 1:14) against Jerusalem first, but also against all of the nations around it."
I remember that when I was an active JW the WT published more than once the idea that the Bible reveals that Jehovah brings his judgements and punishments first upon his own guilty people and then to guilty gentile people. Likewise the Bible says (if I recall correctly) that Jehovah cleanses his holy sanctuary first and then cleanses other areas.
The commentary edited by Dummelow called A Commentary on The Holy Bible (1909), on page 470 in regards to Jeremiah chapter 25 says the following. "The prophet advises submission to Babylon as God's agent, but promises its overthrow at the end of the seventy years' captivity which impends. He announces the judgement that shall descend on the nations.' However, in regards to verse 11 and the expression of "seventy years" the same commentary book says the following. "The Jewish love of round numbers would lead them to consider the number seventy used in such a connexion [sic.] as standing for any approximation to that amount. The captivity seems to have been, in fact, for somewhat less than seventy years."
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Article & Documentary on the Divine name
by Blotty invideo documentary and academic article on the divine name:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljpgxsyiqtc&ab_channel=johnwyatthttps://www.academia.edu/14029315/the_name_of_god_y_eh_ow_ah_which_is_pronounced_as_it_is_written_i_eh_ou_ah_simplified_edition?email_work_card=title this does not prove gods name was present in the nt, however some points do lead us to that conclusion simply by process of elimination.
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Disillusioned JW
Revisions to prior post: I revised the last sentence of the the first paragraph to say "I think that fact that such a minute percentage of Christians appreciates the name YHWH/Yahweh/Jehovah says a lot about the vast majority of modern day Christians." I add the following as the third paragraph to my prior post. "To me, the best scholarly non-JW books in their analysis of the Bible, of the ones which I have discovered, are ones which considerably use the name YHWH, Yahweh, and/or Jehovah in their text."
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Article & Documentary on the Divine name
by Blotty invideo documentary and academic article on the divine name:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljpgxsyiqtc&ab_channel=johnwyatthttps://www.academia.edu/14029315/the_name_of_god_y_eh_ow_ah_which_is_pronounced_as_it_is_written_i_eh_ou_ah_simplified_edition?email_work_card=title this does not prove gods name was present in the nt, however some points do lead us to that conclusion simply by process of elimination.
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Disillusioned JW
Of the people I have personally met who have never been a JW, I almost never hear any of them speak the name Jehovah or Yahweh (or some other version of the name). A number of them use the word "God" a lot and the name "Jesus" a lot, but I never heard (in my entire life) more than about three (or so) of them use the name Jehovah/Yahweh in a conversation to me unless I am the first one in the conversation to mention that name, except when they use it as part of the title of "Jehovah's Witnesses" or of the phrase "Jehovah's Witness". It seems that other than biblical scholars, those who are (or at least have been) JWs are virtually the only ones who in our day speak the name Jehovah/Yahweh (other than when used in one of two of the phrases mentioned above). Apparently the name Jehovah/Yahweh has no appeal to the vast majority (more than 98%) of Christians. Perhaps a big part of that is that most copies of translations of the Bible do not include the name Jehovah/Yahweh more than a few times in the scripture text and most don't even include it all in the scripture text (though some include it in a note of the translators and/or in a Preface). I think that says a lot about modern day Christians.
In contrast when a JW showed my maternal grandmother (my mother's mother) the name "Jehovah' in the KJV Bible that was a major fact in my grandmother starting to study the Bible with JWs. She was greatly impressed to learn that the God of the Bible has a name. Her studying the Bible with a JW ultimately resulted in her, her husband (my step-grandfather), and my mother becoming a JW, and thus also my sister and I becoming a JW (but I no longer believe in the JW religion, though admittedly I believe in some of their teachings, such that the Hebrew scriptures say that God's name is YHWH/Yahweh/Jehovah). My step-grandfather began studying with the JWs soon after his wife began studying.
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How to debunk the 1914 calculus ONLY using JW publications?
by psyco ini remember having read somewhere, but i cannot find it anymore, that it is possible to debunk the 1914 calculus using only jw publications, like "insight on the scriptures" (chronologies) for example.. do you have any sources about that to suggest to me?.
thanks..
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Disillusioned JW
Page 4 of this topic thread made claims of a translation of VAT4956. For comparison, note that regarding the translation of VAT4956 https://books.google.com/books?id=ETx7DQAAQBAJ&pg=PA141&lpg=PA141&dq=translation+from+German+to+English+of+VAT4956&source=bl&ots=IaXsm_rUcm&sig=ACfU3U3CtNxLJYuuZy5M-09xQjszOV1Lkw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiat4SNoqb9AhWkFFkFHfJVDHgQ6AF6BAgBEAE mentions some of those who translated it.
Regarding comments about servitude versus exile, which have been made in this topic forum, I ask where did the servitude of Jews to Babylon take place? Did it take place in Judah or did it take it place in Babylon, or did it take place in both locations, or did it take place elsewhere? I see no contradiction when people say the servitude of Jews to Babylon took place in Babylon. Likewise I see no contradiction when people say the servitude of Jews to Babylon took place in Judah. I think the servitude to Babylon took place in both locations. However, I have not done much reading about this in the Bible, and my memory of what I read about it is weak. I do know that the book of Daniel (whether historical or not) makes the claim of Daniel being in servitude to the king of Babylon while in Babylon. I also know that the King of Babylon appointed a Jew to be king in Jerusalem (before Jerusalem was destroyed) and thus that particular king in Jerusalem served the king of Babylon and thus was in servitude to Babylon. Note that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_captivity says the following.
"In the fourth year of Nebuchadnezzar II's reign, Jehoiakim refused to pay further tribute, which led to another siege of the city in Nebuchadnezzar II's seventh year (598/597 BCE) that culminated in the death of Jehoiakim and the exile to Babylonia of his successor Jeconiah, his court, and many others; Jeconiah's successor Zedekiah and others were exiled when Nebuchadnezzar II destroyed Jerusalem in his 18th year (587 BCE), and a later deportation occurred in Nebuchadnezzar II's 23rd year (582 BCE). However, the dates, numbers of deportations, and numbers of deportees vary in the several biblical accounts.
.... The city fell on 2 Adar (March 16) 597 BCE,[11] and Nebuchadnezzar pillaged Jerusalem and its Temple and took Jeconiah, his court and other prominent citizens (including the prophet Ezekiel) back to Babylon.[12] Jehoiakim's uncle Zedekiah was appointed king in his place, but the exiles in Babylon continued to consider Jeconiah as their Exilarch, or rightful ruler."
Note that a deportation to Babylon and exile in Babylon for some began in 597 BCE, and note that 597 BCE to 537 BCE is 60 years, and that 60 years is half way in length between 50 years (which many non-Jws claim is the length of the exile) and 70 years (which many JWs claim was the length of the exile). also note that were multiple deportations.
Regarding the claim (made in this topic thread) that "... that the Land of Judah was desolate during the Exile of 70 years ..." the above mentioned Wikipedia article says the following. "Archaeological studies have revealed that, although the city of Jerusalem was utterly destroyed, other parts of Judah continued to be inhabited during the period of the exile." Note that modern science conclusively shows that parts of Judah were inhabited during the exile.
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Another interesting comment made by a PIMI JW
by joe134cd ini thought i’d shear this with you good people.
the cognitive dissonance is just breath taking.
i over heard this comment at a relatives family dinner the other night.
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Disillusioned JW
In hindsight, it would have been better for me if I had never been invited (or appointed) to receive so-called privileges in the congregation, since I would have been less involved with the religion and thus maybe out of the religion much sooner, or maybe even never became baptized into the religion. If had begun having a beard by eighth grade (and thus exercised more of an independent attitude, including of independent thinking), then I probably would never have been: allowed to become baptized (or possibly never allowed to become baptized), passing the microphones down the isles, an assistant in the sound department, in charge of the sound department, an assistant of the magazine counter, in charge of the magazine counter, an assistant of the literature counter/department, in charge of the literature department, assigned #4 talks (I became assigned those talks right after I became baptized), a ministerial servant, an auxiliary pioneer, a regular pioneer, assigned public talks, assigned service meeting talks, an attendant at circuit assemblies, an attendant at special assemblies, an attendant at district conventions, asked to give a prayer to the congregation, asked to give a prayer to the book study group, asked to conduct a meeting of field service, asked to conduct a book study meeting, asked to read paragraphs out loud at book study meetings, asked to read paragraphs at loud at congregational Watchtower study meetings, an attendant passing the emblems of the Memorial, and possibly assigned other JW responsibilities.
If I never had any of the possible responsibilities, then I would have had more time to socialize before and after congregational meetings, and I would have had more free time to do what I really wanted to do.
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JW's: Research your beliefs..................
by BoogerMan inw59 8/1 p. 458 par.
17-18 par.
w08 4/15 p. 6 par.
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Disillusioned JW
Correction: Where I said "... being named to a stake ..." I meant to say "... being nailed to a stake ...".
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JW's: Research your beliefs..................
by BoogerMan inw59 8/1 p. 458 par.
17-18 par.
w08 4/15 p. 6 par.
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Disillusioned JW
It is not just the Bible Stories book depicting only one nail being used in Jesus' hands. As far as I recall, all of the WT's depictions of Jesus being named to a stake (of the kind lacking a cross beam to support the body) show only one nail driven through the hands. Many of the illustrations show a slanted board under the feet (with one only nail going through the feet) providing some degree of support to the body - and thus eliminating the need for more than one nail being needed in the hands for support of the body.
I'm not aware of the WT ever saying (at least during the years I was an active JW) that multiple nails through the hands were needed to support the body weight of Jesus. When I talked to a JW elder about the reference to nails in Gospel accredited to John, the elder told me it says "nails" because a nail was also used for the feet in addition to a nail for being used for the hands. But I didn't accept his explanation since the verse doesn't say "in his hands and feet the print of the nails" but instead says "in his hands the print of the nails". Note that John 20:25 (1984 NWt) says "... Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails and stick my finger into the print of the nails and stick my hand into his side ...". That verse says nothing about the feet and thus nothing about the print of nails (or a nail) in the feet.